help us out a little bit here. You are a physicist and at some point you went from seeing that within the field of physics itself, there are things that are not always material uh uh and and can you can you point to something that is not material even within the discipline of physics or astronomy? Well, when I was first uh checking out Christianity during my late teenage years, the thing that struck me were these space-time theorems, basically establishing that the universe has a beginning, but that the beginning includes the beginning of space and time itself, which means that the cause of the universe must be some entity that’s operating beyond space, time, matter, and energy. To me, that’s the clearest piece of evidence that there is something beyond this material universe. Naturalism can’t be the whole story because we have these powerful space-time theorems that prove the cause of the universe is an entity beyond space, time, matter, and energy as we can observe it. Now, I’ve run into colleagues that say, “Well, we can find some way to explain the universe, but they’re inventing other dimensions of space and time.” So, the space-time dimensions we observe, they definitely have a beginning. They had to be created by something beyond space and time. And that’s just the beginning. I mean, we were talking about the origin of life. The fact that we can’t explain the origin of life from a materialistic perspective. We can’t explain the Avalon explosion of the first large animals that appeared or the Cameron explosion. I mean, the list goes on and on and on of things that can’t be explained from a naturalistic perspective. And just two weeks ago, we held a workshop at Reasons to Believe on what’s happening in evolutionary biology where they’re now saying there’s something teological about the history of life on planet Earth. Interestingly, they bypass the origin of life and say, “Let’s just look at the history of life.” But they say, “The latest discoveries in paleontology and genetics are telling us that there’s something teological, which is another word, God somehow is involved in the process.” Uh, what we’re seeing is these evolutionary biologists, they’re quickly becoming deas. I mean, there’s really a revolution going on in evolutionary biology. So, so let let’s let’s take take this now a step further. Uh if these are not if these phenomena these Chapter 2: Interdimensional Entities repeatable phenomena where where you actually see evidence of you know you you talked about asphalt uh uh melting I think in in your manuscript that you you gave me the these examples of just the rocks being scorched. If these are not extraterrestrial life, then what are they? Well, as Jacqu Valet points out, we’re dealing with interdimensional entities. And in some of his writings, he actually uses the word beings because they seem to be able to communicate with human contactes. Well, from a biblical perspective, we got God creating two distinct species of intelligent life. We human beings that are constrained by the physics and the dimensions of the universe and angels who are not constrained and God has granted these angelic beings that exist in another dimension to be able to come into our realm and leave. And what’s interesting is that we have two categories. the righteous angels uh that are perfectly virtuous and then the ones that are in rebellion against God, the unrighteous angels, what many people call demons. And the Bible tells us in Hebrews 13, uh that the righteous angels will frequently assist we Christians in our ministries, but they typically come and assist for just a few seconds and they’re gone. Whereas the evil angels tend to hang around. And the thing that I noticed about this UAP phenomena, Chapter 3: UAP Sightings and Occult uh, the UAP sightings are most frequent at 3:00 a.m. in the morning at the end of lonely country roads. And immediately that caught my attention because who who’s living at the end of country roads at 3:00 a.m. in the morning? Well, that’s where we astronomers put our telescopes. You know, we’ll construct a road away from civilization, put a telescope there. So, you’d anticipate that astronomers would be at the top of the list of citing these UAPs, but the truth is they’re close to the bottom of the list. So, hey, they’re out at 3:00 a.m. in the morning at the end of only country roads. They don’t see anything. Uh but when I was doing my uh graduate research on quazars and galaxies, I noted that there were two astronomers that were seeing UAP phenomena every time they went on the telescope, but they’re only logging three or four hours of observing time a year. I was logging 1500 hours. And I had friends who were logging almost as much time on the telescopes. We never saw anything. But one thing I knew about those two astronomers, both of them were deep into practicing the occult. So that was the first time I said, “Well, maybe the connection is the occult. The people who practice the occult are the ones that are going to have these close encounters with UAPs.” And over the last 40 years, that has proven to be true. I especially saw that when I went to the Soviet Union when the communists were still running the show and they had me speak to their scientists. What I realized is how many of them uh had these close encounters with UFOs, even had communication experiences with the entities that were part of this UAP phenomena. But that was an era when the Soviet Union was sponsoring research in occult physics. And what I noticed is the physicists involved in occult physics, they were the ones having these experiences. When I back went back to Russia in 1994 when the communists were no longer running the show and there was no longer any uh you know sponsorship of all physics, the number of scientists having these encounters had plummeted. It dropped by more than a factor of 20 times. And I see that over even here in the United States is that when I go to speak say in Alaska and Hawaii, I run into a lot of people who’ve had encounters with UFOs. But those are the Chapter 4: Occult Connections two states where you got the highest percentage of the population involved in the occult. When I speak in Nebraska or Iowa, the percentage is much much lower because a much smaller percentage of the population is involved in the occult. So, and the Bible tells us the occult is a way that you can be contacted by these evil angelic beings. And so, what I tell people in Lights and Sky, Little Green Men, and even more emphatically and specifically in this new book we’re bringing out, the UFO problem is that if you get the occult out of your life, that’ll be the end of your encounters uh with these close, you know, close encounters with these UAPs. But if you practice the occult, good chance it’s going to happen to you. And if you’re deep into the occult, it’ll happen repeatedly. If you do not believe in the physical resurrection of [music] Jesus Christ, send me an email tour at drjamestor.org [music] and we will get together and I will share with you about why I embrace the resurrection of Jesus. Yes. And this is what you know I remember you were sitting in my office. It was in about 2003 or 2004 and the Nobel Prize winner Rick Smallley was there and his wife Debbie and uh you started taking Rick through this and this is where I first learned that indeed uh um it’s through the practice of the occult and you know even even as simple as Ouija boards and tarot cards can begin to open people up to demonic activity. And it is then that they begin seeing the these UAPs and and the the the times when there’s interaction when there’s interaction between these phenomena and and the individual, it is almost always a a just a terrifying thing, which is exactly what demons do. It’s a terrifying thing. When there’s an angelic presence in the Bible, it’s always peaceful. It’s kind. It’s gracious. And most of the time they’re appearing in some other form. But when they, you know, they’ll appear as a as a young man, uh, and they’ll say, “Well, the body of Jesus is not here. He’s he’s he’s he’s risen.” You know, they they’ll, it comforting thing. And and so even though just the presence, so if you think of Zechariah, I mean, he was terrified to see the angel sitting on the on the on the end there because the the the Israelites knew that that uh this is the phenomena that could happen if if you’re going to Chapter 5: Demon Encounters be killed. But it turned out to be a very peaceful thing. And so so uh uh but all of these sightings I mean the the animals in the in in around will detect these much more quickly and the individual ends up terrified sometimes to the point of of being highly sick afterwards and psychologically damaged afterward which is consistent with this being a de demonic entity. And I like what you said that when you start dealing with the occult, when you get people praying and you get get them uh uh claiming the blood of Christ and and and praying and getting free of this and repenting of this, these sightings go away. And I remember you said something in my office uh uh more than 20 years ago, you said, you know, if you if you take a place where people are having a lot of these sightings, you see that there are occult practices. But if you bring a prayer group in and they start praying and they start start uh uh uh uh bringing people into a a time of repentance, the the the sightings go away. So again, there is this correlation. Expand on this for us. Yeah, very much so. I mean in terms of the close encounters Alan Heinik the astrophysicist basically said uh the things we have to worry about is where the human contact is less than 500 ft away from the UFO phenomena and uh and in some cases you actually have communication. I mean the most dramatic case is where the human contactee goes into a trance and while they’re in a trance uh this angelic being will have them right and so there’s actually four UFO religions that are quite prominent here in the United States many more overseas. Uh but kind of their holy book is the Arantia book which was communicated from one of these UAP entities to a human contactee. It’s actually bigger than the Bible but a third of its content is denying the deity of Jesus Christ. So that kind of gives you an idea where it’s coming from. Uh but Jacqu Valet and Alan Heinik also documented that when people have Chapter 6: UFO Religions these close encounters with these UAPs, it’s always harmful. The best you’re going to come away with is recurring terrifying nightmares. Say what’s the worst case scenario? There’s many documented cases where the human contact has been killed uh by the encounter or their animals have been killed. As you mentioned, sometimes it’s the pets that are associated with the human that react first to the UAP phenomena and sometimes they’re killed by the phenomena. So, this is quite a harmful thing and uh you know and very deceptive. I mean, that’s the thing that caught my attention even my teenage years. People who claimed to have gotten these messages from the UAPs, I knew right away that the astronomy they were communicating was incorrect. But it’s like they seem to be keeping pace with their education level and our technology because you know 100 years ago they appearing as slowm moving derigibles in the atmosphere. World War II they were the foo fighters moving at the speed of sound. Now they’re moving as fast as our fastest spaceships. And the stories they tell people change. A 100 years ago they said they were from the back side of the moon. When people realize, well, that’s not credible, they said, well, we’re from Venus. When people figured how hot it is on Venus, they said, we’re from Mars. Now, they’re saying that they’re from another planetary system. So, the fact that they keep changing their story. And as Jacqu Valet has documented, this phenomena has always been with us. So, some of the Chapter 7: Spiritual Deception documented cases go back more than 3,000 years. But there they were appearing as fairies and as leprechauns. Now they’re appearing as flying saucers and spaceships. And angelic beings have that power uh for a brief period of time. They can transform themselves into a your grandfather, a human being, an animal or a spaceship. They can do that. Uh but when they do those kinds of things, they’re violating the laws of physics. That’s what our government is releasing. uh these reports that are coming out where pilots see uh these supposed craft making sharp right angle turns at 15,000 mph. Well, no physical object can withstand those kinds of G forces. So, we are already dealing with something that’s real but not physical. It’s spiritual. There really is a spiritual realm. I think that’s what’s going to be exciting about these releases from France and Britain and Russia, Brazil, and the United States. It’s going to persuade people there really is a spiritual dimension out there. My concern as a Christian, they’re going to go into uh spiritualism rather than Christianity. Uh you know, we’re fundamentally spiritual. All of us want to worship something. Uh my worry is when they say, “Oh, materialism isn’t the answer.” instead of following Jesus Christ, uh, they’re going to follow a false spiritual religion. Thank you for joining me today. If you could give us a like, share, or podcast review, we would [music] appreciate it. If you have any questions, you could send them to ask at jesusandscience.org, and we’ll try to answer some of those questions in an upcoming video. And if you do not believe in the physical resurrection of Jesus [music] Christ and you want to hear about why I believe, send me an email to tour at drjamesour.org or and we’ll get together by Zoom and I’ll share with you why I embrace the [music] resurrection of J